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Offlinetennismanly
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Round 4 of 4   /   left

tennismanly says:

you pick first
Round 1

I will argue for Pete Sampras.

Since this is a four-round RootOff I'll just run down his list of accomplishments for now:
- 14 grand slams (ATP record)
-#1 ATP player for six consecutive years, record 286 weeks
-Won Wimbledon seven times and U.S. Open five times
-appeared in at least one Grand Slam final for 11 consecutive years
-earned $43 million in prize money (ATP record)
-64 career ATP titles (4th all time)
-Won at least four titles each year from 1990-1999
-ATP Player of the Year (1993-1998)
-Won 77% of his pro matches
-Won a grand slam in teens, 20's and 30's
-Won last grand slam he ever participated in (2002 U.S. Open).

Posted on 10/5/08
2 roots 0 boos
Round 1

I will argue for Roy Emerson

-12 grand slams (behind sampras 14)
- Beginning in 1959, he was in the World Top Ten 9 straight times, No. 1 in 1964-65. Also: No. 7, 1959;No. 6, 1960; No. 2, 196 1-62, ‘67; No. 3, 1964, ‘66.
- Won Davis Cup a record 8 Times
- 21-2 record in singles 13-2 in doubles (Davis Cup)
- won 28 titles over all (singles and doubles)

Posted on 11/5/08
2 roots 0 boos
Round 2

The problem with Roy Emerson's grand slams is they were won against an amateur field. During this time, the world's top players turned professional and were unable to compete in grand slam events. The Open Era began in 1968, when all tennis competitors were eligible for the tournaments. Coincidentally or not, Emerson never won a grand slam after 1967. Also, three of the major tourneys were played on grass during Emerson's time, and that's Pete's best surface (proven by his seven Wimbledon titles). Consider how many slams Sampras would have if he faced amateurs on grass three times a year...

The competition level is just different nowadays. People will point at Pete's inability to win the French Open as a flaw, but there are many international players who compete only on clay and don't even bother participating in the other majors. Winning in Roland Garros is difficult for that very reason; facing professional-level clay-court experts is no easy task. Just look at some of the winners from 1993-2002:

Sergi Bruguera
Thomas Muster
Gustavo Kuerten
Carlos Moya
Albert Costa

None of them have won a Grand Slam besides the French Open, my point exactly. It's by far the most meaningless major, so although I'm sure you'll bring up the fact that Emerson won each of the grand slams unlike Pete, keep in mind how random those winners are and tell me how relevant such an accomplishment is.

Against the top-10, Sampras compiled a 114-60 record. Against players ranked 11-100, He had a 440-131 record. He played against 297 different people and had a winning record against 245 of them. Excluding players with only one career match against him leaves an even more impressive total: a 92% winning percentage with winning records against 141 of 154 players.

Posted on 11/5/08
3 roots 0 boos
Round 2

So im assuming that, you consider Rod Laver, Arthur Ashe were part of the amauter field, in which supposedly Emerson had no competition in? And they are not considered tennis greats? ok so Lets look at Rod Laver and Arthur Ashe

Rod Laver
Winner of 11 Grand Slams
One of Only 5 people to win all 4 Grand Slams
Won 5 Davis cups
16-4 (singles) 4-0 (doubles) in davis cup

Arthur Ashe Jr.
First Black Male to win A Grand Slam
Two Time Finalist at the Australian Open

VV All took Part Before he became Pro.
Amateur singles, 1968; Clay Court singles, 1967; Hard Court singles, 1963; Intercollegiate singles, 1965; Indoor doubles, 1967, Intercollegiate doubles, 1965, with Ian Crookenden

How does amatuer not have any competition?
Out of the 12 Grand Slams, Emerson won, He won in straight sets only 50% of the time, and in the three runner ups he had, he went 3+ sets each time.
Rod Laver was pushed to the limit twice in Amatuer competition.

And French Open is one of the most important slams in Tennis. It is just as equal as Wimbledon because they both have unique surfaces.

Sergi Bruguera
Australian Open 4th (1993)
French Open W (1993, 94)
Wimbledon 4th (1994)
US Open 4th (1994, 97)

Career record: 447-271
Silver 1996 Atlanta Singles
^^ Which was played on Hard Court.

Thomas Muster
Australian Open SF (1989, 97)
French Open W (1995)
Wimbledon 1st (1987, 92, 93, 94) (he never had an success at wimbledon)
US Open QF (1993, 94, 96)
Career record: 622-271
Highest ranking: 1 (February 12, 1996)


Gustavo Kuerten
Australian Open 3rd (2004)
French Open W (1997, 2000, 2001)
Wimbledon QF (1999)
US Open QF (1999, 2001)
Career record: 358-191
highest ranking: No. 1 (December 4, 2000)

Carlos Moya
Australian Open F (1997)
French Open W (1998)
Wimbledon 4R (2004)
US Open SF (1998)
Career record: 543 - 287
Highest ranking: 1 (March 15, 1999)

Albert Costa
Australian Open QF (1997)
French Open W (2002)
Wimbledon 2nd (1996, 1998)
US Open 4th (2001)
Career record: 383-272
Highest ranking: 6 (July 22, 2002)


Lets see they are all Top 10 players or were top ten players at some point in their carrer. I

Posted on 11/5/08
2 roots 0 boos
Round 3

I never said anything negative toward Rod Laver. However, to say that was the legit competition Roy Emerson faced is a little misleading because Laver turned pro in 1963 and therefore did not collide with Emerson many times in his prime. Even with that said, in the open era Laver was 12-0 against Emerson. Also, Arthur Ashe was 12-1 against Emerson in the open era. That's a 1-24 record for Emerson in the open era against two of the world's best players. This is a sign that he dominated the amateur ranks and had solid success when he knew he had only one or two legit opponents. However, once the tournaments were open to the world's best, his play suffered and he seemed overwhelmed by having to face a top-notch player every round.

Just to enforce this point a little more, Emerson was never really the #1 player in the sport. While he dominated the amateur ranks, players like Pancho Gonzales and Ken Rosewall were winning big tourneys as professionals. For example, look at 1968, the first year of the open era. Emerson was the defending champ, but because Gonzales was now eligible, the two played in the quarterfinals and Gonzales emerged as the victor despite being nearly 40 years old and past his prime. How can Emerson be considered the all-time greatest when he never dominated the professional ranks?!

Let's not suggest Pete Sampras didn't play great competitors, either. Nowadays there are players of all nationalities and ethnicities. He had winning records against former #1-ranked players like Andre Agassi (20-14), Boris Becker (12-7), and Jim Courier (16-4).

Rankings are skewed by the fact that those guys won many tournaments on clay, so during that time period their point totals were pretty high. Anyway, Thomas Muster and Carlos Moya spent a combined 8 weeks with the #1 ranking, so that's not a big deal at all. It still doesn't change the fact that neither one of them won a grand slam aside from the French Open. It's by far the most irrelevant grand slam. Meanwhile you mention the clay specialists and their success, or lack thereof, in other grand slams.

1993 US Open
1993 Wimbledon
1994 Wimbledon
1996 US Open
1997 Australian Open
1998 Wimbledon
1999 Wimbledon

These were just a few of the grand slams mentioned in your argument because that's when players like Moya had their highest finishes. What do each of those specific tournaments have in common? PETE SAMPRAS WON THEM ALL.

Posted on 11/5/08
2 roots 0 boos
Round 3

i dont see how you can say that the amateur people were not able to compete with the pros? i mean now Roy Emerson is a tennis great i stand by my arguement very strongly. Pro or not HE IS THE BEST PLAYER IN THE HISTORY TENNIS. Playing the ranks of tennis they played those days with no tennis facilities is amazing. You have to understand that pay wasnt very much back then and that maybe, Emerson couldnt afford to become a pro under circumstances.

Im still puzzled how amateurs are not considered pros.

Fred Stolle


Australian Championships/Open
Singles finalist: 1964, 1965
Men's Doubles champion: 1963, 1964, 1966
Men's Doubles finalist 1962, 1965, 1969
Mixed Doubles champion: 1962, 1969
Mixed Doubles finalist: 1963

French Championships/Open
Singles champion: 1965
Men's Doubles champion: 1965, 1968
Mixed Doubles finalist: 1962, 1963, 1964

Wimbledon
Singles finalist: 1963, 1964, 1965
Men's Doubles champion: 1962, 1964
Men's Doubles finalist: 1961, 1968, 1970
Mixed Doubles champion: 1961, 1964, 1969

U.S. Championships/Open
Singles champion: 1966
Singles finalist 1964
Men's Doubles champion: 1965, 1966, 1969
Mixed Doubles finalist: 1975

it doesnt matter if they were pro or not. They competed at the same level for some point in time. You can distinguish the fact that pros are better than amateurs just because they were called amateurs. Some of these guys had some serious serious game.

Roy Emerson, was an amateur, but it doesnt matter
winning 12 Grand Slams is winning 12 Grand Slams
Winning 28 Overall Grand Slams is even tougher

i dont think Pete Sampras could have done,that and because Emerson played majority of his matches on grass, he is a better grass court player, and he is the better player overall, and he is the best player in the history of tennis

Posted on 11/5/08
2 roots 0 boos
Round 4

You're not getting it. There's a difference between dominating amateurs and professionals, period. It doesn't bother you at all that Roy Emerson never won a grand slam once the open era started in 1968 and pros were able to compete in those events? The fact that he was never the world's best player makes it hard to believe that he's the greatest of all-time.

Ken Rosewall
-Turned pro in 1957
-Won 4 grand slams in open era
- 1968 French Open
- 1970 US Open
- 1971 Australian Open
- 1972 Australian Open

Rod Laver
-Turned pro in 1962
-Won 5 grand slams in open era
- 1968 Wimbledon
- 1969 Wimbledon
- 1969 Australian Open
- 1969 French Open
- 1969 US Open

These are just two examples of players who turned pro when Emerson was still an amateur. You mention that perhaps he couldn't afford to take the step, but that's just too bad. It's difficult to take his grand slam wins seriously when he avoided some very good players. Imagine if Laver and Rosewall were around during the 1960's; would Emerson still have 12 titles?

-Andre Agassi
-Boris Becker
-Michael Chang
-Jimmy Connors
-Jim Courier
-Stefan Edberg
-Ivan Lendl
-John McEnroe
-Mats Willander
-Patrick Rafter

All professional #1 players, and Sampras had a winning record against each and every one of them. He's one of three players to win two different grand slams four or more times. He was the world's best for a record 286 consecutive weeks. He also finished each year from 1993 to 1998 #1. This is dominance in the sport's toughest era, so I have a hard time believing tennis has seen a greater player in its life span than Pete Sampras.

Posted on 11/5/08
1 roots 0 boos
Round 4

Ok so if sampras play emerson and they both were in their prime. emerson would win. Emerson is the best player in the history of tennis, and im not going to leave that point. and some last thoughts

Emerson competed in the 1960's when tournaments were located in many other, places, sampras had a pay check that allowed him to play tournaments
and with that note i believe roy emerson is the best player in the HISTORY of tennis


Posted on 12/5/08
1 roots 0 boos

Comments (18)

OnlineNasty Ninja says... on 10/5/08
2 roots 0 boos

Federer, but thats all i know about tennis that guys name.

OfflineDino301 says... on 10/5/08
2 roots 0 boos

Hard to pick, especially since you didn't specify male or female.

OfflineDino301 says... on 10/5/08
1 roots 0 boos

Whoops. Your topic is listed in "ATP tour", so it must be men I assume.

OfflineVandys says... on 10/5/08
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there is a great argument that can be made for Federer...I assume that is who tennismanly is picking

Offlinetennismanly says... on 11/5/08
0 roots 0 boos

i say i have a strong arguement as does dino301

OfflineNipple_Cripple says... on 12/5/08
1 roots 0 boos

Dino is a goot rootoffer, but tennismanly has too many homies.

Offlinetennismanly says... on 12/5/08
1 roots 0 boos

yeah but how do you think i did on the topic nips?

Offlineking booker says... on 12/5/08
1 roots 0 boos

Pete Sampras was dominant

Offlineking booker says... on 12/5/08
1 roots 0 boos

Boris Baker should be mentioned too

Offlinetennismanly says... on 12/5/08
1 roots 0 boos

who'd you vote for booker?